> If you didn’t go that route, you were still looked at as a junior. Your ego clouds your view.
your ego clouds your response.
He wasn't talking about if he was hired into a jr role, he was talking about the competency, experience, and skills acquired from the years of writing code for passion. If he could write better code, or debug problems faster than your average jr level employee.
Not everyone fits into the tiny bucket you've imagined must hold everyone. The answer could easily be, we hired you because you ticked all the boxes, but no one doing the interview could tell they were completely out classed.
If you’re employed, you’re in a bucket. It’s a cell on a spreadsheet somewhere.
I’ve yet to find a junior dev that had more skills than a junior dev. I’ve seen them try… but they are still a junior dev. If you aren’t a junior dev, then you aren’t. Mentorship has nothing to do with what bucket you’re in.
However, there are specific job duties of senior and higher that are beyond just writing code. One of them is making more seniors. There’s only one way to do that efficiently. Learning. And while you can go read a manual on how to put a Ferrari together, wouldn’t you want to work with a mechanic who has already made dozens of them?
> I’ve yet to find a junior dev that had more skills than a junior dev. I’ve seen them try… [...] If you aren’t a junior dev, then you aren’t.
Funny, I've met plenty of jr devs that were way more competent than some of their peers who've been at the exact same company/division for 4+ years. Which was my point. The world is bigger than you can imagine. There are people with experiences that you couldn't describe, but you write in a way that feels like you want to dismiss them outright as impossible, which does a disservice to everyone involved.
> And while you can go read a manual on how to put a Ferrari together, wouldn’t you want to work with a mechanic who has already made dozens of them?
> Why do we reject help?
I feel like you and I are arguing past each other. To reuse your example: There are plenty of people who have never spent time with a mechanic, but have been spent so much time pouring over every technical manual for the car, that they can out perform guys with years working for Ferrari, while that guy working for Farrari has mentors, he still has to ask for help with most things, and needs to look up a number of the specs. But the person who exclusively taught himself, can do many of the same tasks blindfolded.
No one has said they don't want mentorship, but many were never in a position to have that advantage. But you said that if they think aquired their skills on their own, they need to seek therapy. WTF?
I'm sure you've met plenty of narcissists who have had mentors, but claim they haven't. But it's wrong, insulting and pretty toxic to lump everyone into that same group.
>but you write in a way that feels like you want to dismiss them outright as impossible
I write in a way from wisdom, from experience, the likes of which you describe as indescribable.
Ever heard the term “It takes a village”? You had mentors that you refuse to acknowledge.
>There are plenty of people who have never spent time with a mechanic, but have been spent so much time pouring over every technical manual for the car, that they can out perform guys with years working for Ferrari, while that guy working for Farrari has mentors, he still has to ask for help with most things, and needs to look up a number of the specs.
Except that guy in his garage isn’t working for BMW or Mercedes, he’s a hobbyist that has learned all about his vehicle. There’s a difference. A minor one, but it’s there. The Ferrari mechanic works on ALL Ferrari. Now, you’ll say, but there’s a car guy that can… I’ll save you the trouble. That guy isn’t applying to junior roles, isn’t asking for mentorship, he’s just a car guy. A passion about cars.
Then you’ll say: exactly my point about engineering. Which is right, I never said that it wasn’t possible that someone could selflessly throw hours away teaching themselves through trial, error, and tutorials. There are many paths. What I’m saying is, stop wasting hours and open your mouth and ask for help. There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Every scientific breakthrough starts with a question. Every idiot response starts with an answer. Mentorship is asking for guidance with the wisdom to know the difference.
your ego clouds your response.
He wasn't talking about if he was hired into a jr role, he was talking about the competency, experience, and skills acquired from the years of writing code for passion. If he could write better code, or debug problems faster than your average jr level employee.
Not everyone fits into the tiny bucket you've imagined must hold everyone. The answer could easily be, we hired you because you ticked all the boxes, but no one doing the interview could tell they were completely out classed.