Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
The Great Shift in Japanese Pop Culture (2011) (neojaponisme.com)
102 points by tty on Feb 23, 2013 | hide | past | favorite | 33 comments


Wow, what a fantastic set of articles. Some interesting things for me:

- Apparently low/middle class consumers in Japan would put themselves into debt to buy luxury brands like Gucci. I'm not sure if this is meant general debt like we see in the US with credit cards, or if it mean specific financing for those items. (I met a guy in Central America that was making payments on a jean jacket.)

- If I read correctly, the lower income pressure is making things that are marginally cheaper, like fake beer, actually take off. I would assume this is because of the generally high cost of products in Japan? Whereas in other countries, even with lower income, you don't resort to fake beer... maybe I misunderstood though.

- As of the article's time, the Internet doesn't have any really influential outlets in Japan, and print media dominates for legitimacy and doesn't put much content online. I know myself and other folks that don't read any print media, so it seems odd that the Internet didn't penetrate quickly in Japan.

- The squeeze on the markets means fringe groups now "dominate". That is, "normal" folks cut back on their consumption, but fringe groups are defined by such consumption. So the normal purchasing is gone, leaving just the fringe, leading to groups like AKB48 being #1, when in reality they have niche appeal.

It closes pointing out that this fringe popularity taking over means Japan's cultural exports are growing weaker, and like technology, might be disrupted by Korea. Since the article was written, I think SNSD has grown in popularity, and Gangnam Style certainly brought K-pop into the highlight.

It'll be interesting to see if Korea can successfully export other cultural stuff that Japan has done well with, like video games and anime. (From my brief and irrelevant exposure, it seems Korea is very insular and does not do well exporting culture, although the kpop thing might be changing that. For example, all Korean sites seem to require you to login with your Korean national ID.)


Fake beer is a result of beer manufactures getting around tax laws (beer is taxed more than spirits in Japan). Originally it was low malt beer, but now is low malt beer mixed with spirits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happoshu


I'm not in Japan anymore, but from what I would see around me:

> Apparently low/middle class consumers in Japan would put themselves into debt to buy luxury brands like Gucci

It might be different for people with really low income, but in general that's credit card payment in 3 or 4 chunks. And for people really into brands, there is a decent resale value when a bag or other good is taken proper care.

> fake beer It actually doesn't taste bad. Not as good as premium beer, but not so different from other run of the mill beer. 'fake' would be too pejorative I think.

> print media

It might be just me, but print media hasn't the same status n Japan as in other countries. The "it's printed so it must be true" way of thinking felt less entranched, and printed content was also lighter in tone and credibility. The nikkei shinbun would be the exception perhaps, other venues are seen as heavily biased and you'll find more truth on the internet anonymous boards (2chan) than on tv or newspapers.

About the cultural exports, I think the problem is less about fringe stuffs than About missing the boat on the dominant digital platforms (mainly iTunes and iOS). The same thing is about to appen on ebooks, where the whole industry is aving a hard time doing the transition.


- Most likely they're doing specific financing: whenever you pay with a card (or with your cell phone) in Japan, they ask you how many monthly payments you would like to pay over. There's also a general aversion to going into debt - cash and debit cards are generally preferred over credit cards in Japan.

- I'm not sure if I'm thinking of the right 'fake beer', but marketing of food products in Japan has lately been heavily skewed toward 0 calorie food and drinks. I'm not sure this is entirely fueled by reduced purchasing power.

- The internet in Japan is still very much limited by the fact that it's still primarily browsed via low resolution cell phones. It's getting better, but a fair amount of sites were written for C-HTML/i-mode-HTML, and laptop browsing experience suffered as a result.

- The effect of fringe groups on trends plays out differently in different industries. For Anime, shows with more mainstream appeal are actually hard to find now. On the other hand, in Japan, Anime has always been less mainstream than Manga - people who read a series as a comic book often find the TV shows to be watered-down, or don't find the voice acting to their liking. So, it's more just that a medium that's always had fringe appeal is doubling-down on it. That is, it likely would have happened even without reduced mainstream purchasing power - otaku, who actually buy merchandise, are just a more profitable group to market to.

With fashion and music, it's more that the fringe groups have bought the power to influence mainstream habits - plenty of people who aren't otaku but enjoy AKB48 and Perfume. Many shop at d.i.a. but aren't gyaru (at least not to the extreme the author portrays them as) - just trying to be fashionable, particularly in the short period of time between being in school (with black hair, uniform, and no piercings) and working (with black hair, uniform/suit, and no piercings). The increased availability of foreign brands also has an effect - by moving toward more extreme domestic trends, brands can better distinguish themselves from foreign competitors: with the surge in popularity of K-Pop, it doesn't make sense to try to compete with more of the same style of music.

I don't disagree with the general premise of the article, but I think its tone comes off as a little extreme at times - things aren't so bad there that mainstream purchasing has disappeared, it's just shifted toward some very distinctly Japanese trends, which were popularized at least in part due to the disproportionate spending by those groups.


The beer situation may be related to tax law.


I don't know about the rest, but the increased consumption of fake beer is a pretty classic example of an inferior good. The good that people resort to skimping on would shift from country to country (measured by indifference curves), but it's expected that as income drops spending on inferior goods would rise.


It's a common topic in anime circles that the anime produced in recent years has swung somewhat away from the grittier, more sci-fi stuff (e.g. AKIRA) that initially drew international attention, to more otaku-oriented shows focused on cute girls and in-jokes. This has occurred in parallel with the overall "rise of kawaii" that commentators have observed about '00s Japan.

To illustrate, Blu-Ray discs of anime sell at incredible prices in Japan, e.g. $88/disc or $600/boxset of 6 discs[1], and the same goes for merchandise like figurines. (Compare that to the $60 price of US season boxsets.) The reason is simple: for studios to make sufficient profit, they must rely on a small but core consumer cluster - otaku - to pay extreme prices, because mainstream consumption has imploded. (See [2] for a detailed revenue estimation.) The otaku in turn "maniacally" consume whatever anime they like, making studios increasingly have to turn toward otakus' tastes rather than mainstream or international preferences. Otakus become anime's primary consumer group, and then many anime watchers outside of Japan feel alienated by the decreasing amounts of the sort of genres that first drew them to the medium. I think this partially accounts for the fall in anime's international popularity over the last several years.

[1] http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=115312

[2] http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-07

It's really quite scary how high youth unemployment can doom a generation's economic prospects. There are "over 2,500,000 freeters and between 650,000 and 850,000 NEETs living in Japan between the ages of 19 and 35",[2][3] which is a fair number although probably not terribly different from other advanced economies. (Freeters are permatemps, i.e. those without permanent employment who work low-paying temp jobs in-between periods of joblessness; NEETs are recluses.) However, the benefits and mobility gap between the traditionally employed and the freeters/NEETs is large enough that I think they'll be cemented as an underclass at the rate things are going. Once they're off the traditional career ladder, they can't get back on it, and they're stuck living with their parents and sometimes withdrawing from social RL and becoming otaku on discussion BBSs.

One possible route out for Japan is exporting to foreign markets, but the market-cultural distance between Japan and other nations has widened since large Japanese corporations started disengaging from their foreign ventures. The whole Galapagos effect means that Japanese entrepreneurs have to base themselves in other countries if they want to have a shot at creating a product that sells outside Japan. It's a pity because I think they can make some rather unique, interesting products - they just don't have a way to get noticed outside of Japan. Korea took a much better route in focusing on exporting both electronics and media to the world, and they're doing very well as a result. Japanese media used to be significant here in Singapore in the '90s, but its popularity waned as the K-wave surged, and now K-dramas dominate the airwaves, I suspect crowding out even English-language shows.

I last visited Japan in 2008, and saw a good number of cut-price discount stores there, but overall prices weren't truly cheap. I wonder how different things are nowadays after these further years of lean.

[2] http://www.japanfocus.org/-Kosugi-Reiko/2022

[3] http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php?itemid=907

(This 3rd link is very worth reading for details on the unemployment situation and lost generation in Japan)


Font woes aside, this is an extremely interesting series on economic adjustment; in many ways, Japan provides a leading indicator for changes in American and European economies.


Yes and no.

On the surface Japan can seem like it has some things in common (comparable) with the West; however, it's more or less comparing superficial manifestations.

1. Japan while you will see 'international' this and that everywhere and people are taught English from an early age, Japan is very insular (geographically, obviously and mentally) and inward looking (provincial not reflective) and hardly international. People (employees) in the international depts can't expect to rise much within an org. --with few exceptions). All talk and no walk.

2. Japan is very xenophobic (not just a little like Italy might be or France might be about undocumented Roma or Albanians). This could be traced back to how Japan dealt with foreigners (and trade) back in the Edo period as exemplified by Dejima island. Foreigners (dutch) were relegated to an island and had to be back by sundown and could not leave. This attitude has not changed in over a hundred years. 3rd generation Koreans are still considered foreigners (and they must assume a Japanese name, and oddly none the less considered foreign). The foreign population in Japan is actually on the wane for various reasons (economic and also people just get tired of the politics)

3. Japanese industry found their stride in the late 60s; however, few have revisited their assumptions, systems, technologies, methods, etc. For an example, look at their film industry. Almost complete implosion due to stagnation.

4. Conformity. While on the surface these niche 'diverse' groups would seem to indicate break with conformity, it does not. As someone observed, these movements and subcultures are de-coupled from politics, completely.

That's just the beginning. There are many other reasons a 1:1 comparison with the West is not helpful.

There is a kind of parallel withe the US. It's the maturity regression. However, while many in the US recognize and decry the eternal adolescence of American adults (viz toilet humor, frat culture), in Japan it's rather infantilization (viz Hello Kitty, stuffed animals, Pokemon --whose main audience are adults, not children).

Edit: I guess what I mean is that one would extrapolate Japan onto the West at one's own expense (of understanding). In this agree with Japan --they are unique, in this regard.


3rd generation Koreans are still considered foreigners (and they must assume a Japanese name, and oddly none the less considered foreign).

They don't have to assume a Japanese name. Most do, probably the legal alias they have used all their lives when speaking in Japanese. East Asian countries do not have the same attitudes to names as unique identifiers, invariant across languages as western countries do. The third generation Koreans you refer to are Zainichi Koreans who don't hold Japanese nationality.

However, the Japanese Diet has not yet passed a resolution regarding this matter [Zainich Koreans voting rights in Japanese elections] despite several attempts by a section within Liberal Democratic Party of Japan to do so, and there is considerable public and political opposition against granting voting rights to those who have not yet adopted Japanese nationality. Instead, the requirements for naturalization has been steadily lowered for Zainichi to the point that only criminal records or affiliation to North Korea would be a hindrance for naturalisation.

I'm not saying that Japan isn't very xenophobic but if they want Japanese citizenship most Zainichi Koreans can have it with relatively little difficulty.


It just seems incongruous to me that someone who is third or fourth generation born in Japan could be considered 'foreign'. It's not as if the parents were 'illegally' in Japan. (anyone illegal is pretty much promptly sent home --with few exceptions of people involved with crime syndicates).

It's not even ironic that zainichi just means someone 'residing/staying' temporarily, ie. not considered permanent -but they've been born and lived in Japan all their lives, as well as their parents and grandparents.


It seems incongruous to me as well but it's not my country so my opinion is of at most academic interest. I'm not that interested in the literal meaning or etymology of words. In the same way that Charlize Theron is not an African-American but Morgan Freeman is, Zainichi Korean means persons of Korean nationality who have been born and raised in Japan, not Koreans resident in Japan who were born in Korea.


Charlize Theron is South African American, nationality-wise. In terms of Continental designation, South Africans of any ethnicity (Indian, European, African, ancestry call themselves 'African'. It's only outside Africa that it might seem odd. I guess the flipside is how many/most? Egyptians consider the fact they're in Africa incidental.

Zainichi people of Korean ancestry are not Korean nationals. Korea (South) can't call them up to serve in the military for their compulsory army duty. It's like saying 4th generation Americans of Italian or Mexican descent aren't 'Americans' if their parents were not officially naturalized Americans. Zainichi for this intent means 'guest' Korean.


http://www.japantimes.co.jp/community/2008/12/16/issues/youn...

Zainichi Koreans can get North or South Ko

rean passports. They are exempt from military service unless they move to Korea. Connotations and denotations of language change, zainichi means temporary and chosen means korea but zainichi chosen refers to born and raised on Japan people with Korean citizenship or an entitlement to same, not people studying abroad or similar.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zainichi_Korean

See footnote 1


I'm not suggesting a 1:1 comparison, and am intimately familiar with Japanese culture, and being a foreigner within it despite holding citizenship. Consider, for example, the parallel situation of US gun culture, where a relatively small number of consumers are the main driver of sales, which continue to rise is inverse proportion to the overall popularity of guns.


being a foreigner within it despite holding citizenship

Wait... are you one of those exceeedingly rare Japanese citizens who have no Japanese blood ancestry or are you just foreign-born Japanese?

And I do agree with you. Japan is a leading indicator in many respects.


By marriage for a number of years. It doesn't make me an expert but it did give me a first hand perspective.


Sorry to butt in - is that " no Japanese blood ancestry" like Arnie has no American blood ancestry (ie is a naturalised citizen).

Is that exceedingly rare? I am surprised, I would assume the Japanese equivalent of a green card would be highly sought after for much the same reasons


Citizenship is not the equivalent of an American green card. In Japan, that would be Permanent Residency (永住権).

A person with no Japanese ancestry becoming a citizen is exceedingly rare. It does happen, but not very often, and the process is onerous.

Applying for PR is more common, but still a burdensome procedure and is ostensibly only granted to those who either have a direct connection to Japanese family, either through ancestry or marriage (especially marriage resulting in procreation), or who have achieved some kind of major conventionally recognized accomplishment (e.g., winning the Nobel Prize):

http://www.moj.go.jp/content/000096661.pdf


The timeframe for getting citizenship in Japan is quite long, and from what I've heard from all those I know who have it, largely not worth it - if you don't look Japanese, you will generally continue to be treated as not Japanese. Landlords who refuse to rent to foreigners on the basis that you might book it out of the country will still not rent to you, and customs/immigration workers will still consider you a foreigner. It also just potentially introduces you to a new set of bureaucratic problems, all with forms that simply don't account for the possibility of a non-Japanese name.


Japan considers citizenship to be via decent. It doesn't matter where you are born, unless your parents are Japanese you are not either. Naturalisation is an option - about 10,000 Koreans in Japan become citizens every year; out of 600,000. Obviously, it's not an easy process.

If a child would otherwise be stateless, then they will acquire Japanese citizenship if they are born in Japan. But since Korea has a similar system, Korean children aren't stateless, they are Koreans.


This also has exceptions. People of Japanese ancestry, not mixed, or anything, from Brazil and Peru, are treated as 'foreigners' just the same, even if they look like any other Japanese, with the exception, their families migrated abroad and that they may have picked up some South American manners and such along the way.


Jumping from the Edo period to the 60s does miss a rather important point in the development in Japan and Korea's identity - the Empire of Japan. In 1910, the Empire of Japan (who were still "good" guys - allies of the British Empire), annexed the failing Empire of Korea. To unify the empire, they used a "pure bloodline" propaganda myth - Koreans and Japanese were all pure-blooded warriors from the same stock. After they split up politically, the myths diverged, but never really died (certainly not in North Korea, where the propaganda never stopped).


Well... Japan is a special kind of 'tarded.

You know how we have crunchyroll? That doesn't exist in Japan. Amazon, Netflix; numerous industries just don't exist. The #1 search engine in Japan? Yahoo, although even they can't explain this last bastion. So first of all we got a weird issue of lack of technological disruption in a very wired country.

Secondly, and this is a lot weirder, it all really comes down to lack of being able to fix their own issues. Japan does not sell B2B software at all, and large companies like Sony/Mitsubishi/Fujitsu basically keep programmers fucked by making everything private gardens. Because no one can compete with the internal services, it is a slow death through incestuous defense of certain technology choices with no alternatives.

Everything basically comes down to that oh-so-famous Japanese proverb: "the nail that stands out gets hammered down."


Amazon does very well in Japan, as does the homegrown equivalent, Rakuten. Yahoo is #1 because they have the most services that integrate with Japanese life (it also helps that they are essentially a separate entity from the Yahoo that you know and dislike).

Your other remarks are spot on though.


I hate to be that guy, but when I'm viewing the font on this site at default size, the cross of every "t" is twice as thick as everything else and it's extremely distracting. It looks fine if I increase the font size and slightly better in IE for some reason.


I'm not seeing it; how bout a screenshot?


Chrome: http://i.imgur.com/VBgcURG.png

IE10: http://i.imgur.com/ZBrhDoS.png

Firefox: http://i.imgur.com/ROwDLkb.png

Chrome's text rendering has been pretty broken on Windows since September 2012-ish. There are lots of long bug reports on Chromium's tracker with little effort to fix them. Custom fonts render too thin to the point of discontinuities in the glyphs. The blitting algorithm was messed up so non-black text is often rendered a significantly different color than is specified in the stylesheet. High DPI support is nonexistant (while it was supported for Mac and Linux quickly), so rasterized text is simply scaled up by fractional multipliers, which makes it terribly blurry in both the UI and webpages.

I can only imagine that so many on the Chrome team are running Macs and Ubuntu that they don't see how terrible their software is becoming on Windows in fundamental ways.


Damn those are ugly. If I had to choose though, I'd pick Chrome. The variable width is nothing compared to the rainbow text of the latter two.


There's almost no fringing in Firefox's text (and Mozilla devs went through a lot of pain trying to find good defaults for DirectWrite text in the post Fx4 days) but there's quite a bit in IE's text (see the "k" and "a" letters).

Chrome's text looks completely atrocious though. Hinting is completely random and different letters have different sizes. To my experience, this has been this way since the release of Chrome. With the proliferation of Webfonts some time later Mozilla's and Microsoft's choice to use DirectWrite paid off while Chrome has made no improvement.


Working on a CRT monitor? You can easily adjust subpixel smoothing settings on any OS to get rid of the rainbow. (Windows calls this "Cleartype"; it's right in the control panel)


The text is "rainbow" on purpose because subpixel rendering is enabled (it enhances text for specific LCD monitor types)


Yeah, it's pretty awful. Evernote Clearly FTW.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: